This post is about my experience with Jinan Jiahe CNC company in China.
I purchased a 4 Axis CNC mill with servo drives, 24"x30"x10" working envelope, Weihong 4 Axis PC Controller and a 7.5kW water cooled spindle from them last year. This is the second Chinese machine I imported with the first one being a 130W laser with a 4'x3' table. The laser purchase was a much better experience but there still were some unpleasant similarities.
I have owned and operated a 2000W Cincinnati laser for the past 9 years and I have my Engineering degree. I investigated at least 30 different companies for six months before short listing five companies ( I sent hundreds of emails). From the five companies I finally chose Jinan Jiahe. They weren't the best price but they offered that I could hold back $3000 for three months after the machine was delivered. That way I could verify the quality of the machine and if there were any problems I would still have some leverage.
They took a long time to build the machine but they did email me pictures of the machine's progress. The financing worked as follows: first I made a down payment, then I was to make another payment before the machine shipped and then I was to pay the final $3000 three months after receiving the machine. The company told me that they spent more on the machine then expected so asked that I pay $500 more before the machine shipped and $2500 after the three months. I agreed to this because it appeared that they were really trying.
The machine finally shipped after 6 months of waiting (3 months past their deadline). Since I had already imported the laser I knew the drill with getting the machine into Canada. The most important document I required was an original copy of the bill of lading. The document is usually couriered after the machine is shipped. The machine takes a couple of weeks to make the commute across the ocean and everything was going fine. I had received email copied versions of the documents so that the machine could clear customs upon arrival but I didn't receive an original copy of the bill of lading. I emailed the sales person and he ignored me for some time until the machine had arrived and was sitting in a bonded warehouse. The machine had five free days to sit in the warehouse just in case the paperwork takes a little bit of time to complete. The machine cleared customs without any problem but the freight forwarder would not release the machine yet because I had not sent them an original copy of the bill of lading (OBL). Once the machine was in the warehouse Jinan Jiahe told me that they would not send the OBL until I had paid for the machine in full and the salesperson wanted the money in their personal account and sent by Western Union. The red flags started to fly but I knew they had me over a barrel so I agreed to pay them all the funds but I would put the last payment into the same account as the last two payments. The salesperson didn't like this but I didn't want to have the company come back to me and tell me that I had not payed for the machine.
I made the payment immediately but then the bank screwed up the paperwork so that had to be fixed before the money would pass through. The paperwork was fixed before the money left Canada. Then I had to wait the usual three days for the money to get into the Chinese bank. Where the money goes for three days is beyond my understanding of international banking but I guarantee you that somebody is making a lot of money for doing nothing. Jinan Jiahe then told me that they never received the money and again asked me again to make the payment through Western Union and into his personal bank account. I didn't have any money left to give him so I had to wait. Mean while the machine was sitting in the warehouse accumulating rent ($80 per day). I had my bank manager try to call the Chinese bank but they just hung up. Then I had her call Jinan Jiahe company itself to tell them that we had made the payment but that didn't help. I begged and pleaded for the documents but they would not send them. Finally, after more than a week the sales person released the documents and sent them by 3-5 day courier to me. I then had to wait for the documents and overnight them across the country because the freight forwarder was in Ontario and I was in BC. In the end the sales person (Steve) told me that is was just the way business is. We are not rich people and the stress that it caused but huge. There were other unpleasantries with the whole shipping affair like the warehouse didn't have the equipment to move the machine properly (had to slide it onto the flat deck), didn't speak English, damaged the crate and treated me like garbage but that is another story.
I was finally able to pick up the machine and hired riggers to move it into my shop (another $1000). The crate was so poorly constructed that I was able to pull it apart with my hands. Now I was really nervous about the machine.
Here are the problems so far:
- They had shipped the machine resting on its feet instead of dunnage so the bolts blew through the cast leveling bases. It was an easy fix but still took many hours.
- The machine did not show up with any useful documentation.
- One connector was so corroded that the feedback from the servo didn't work
- The quality of their sheet metal work is on par to a beginners grade 9 high school class
- They made the windows from 1/16" Acrylic that broke with a slight push, they are now 1/4" polycarbonate
- They never finished running the wires properly for the tool zeroing system nor the tubing for the lubrication system
- The controller cabinet is too small to hold the computer they supplied
- There is over spray all over the controller cabinet from touch-ups
- One broken pressure gauge
- They spray painted the entire 4th axis before shipping and I mean everything: linear guides and chuck etc
- The tail stock for the 4th axis is a joke. They must have used bearings from an 1940's truck that had never been maintained. It is useless.
- The machine cannot be levelled to better than 0.01" over a foot because the frame appears to be a little tweaked
- Many loose fittings and fasteners
- The sliding doors didn't work but do now after 4 hours of persuasion
- The machine was supposed to be supplied with two cooling systems: a mist and a flood. They gave me an aquarium pump and no reservoir. The coolant return is supposed to be a path along the floor because there is just a hole
- I am sure there are many more problems to follow
I finally was able to power up the machine and I checked the run-out and it was off by 0.03" over the entire cutting surface. I still may be able to fix this with a little tweaking and having the machine resurface the table.
Now, for the worst news: the spindle won't release the tool holder anymore. I have a switch that sends air to the spindle to release the tool holder and it worked at first but then I noticed that the air fittings leaked on top of the spindle. I tightened the fittings (they were originally finger tight) and now the spindle will not release the holder. I asked Jinan Jiahe for help and after a week of emails they told me I need to ship the spindle back to China (at my expense) because it is broken. So much for having a warranty. Unfortunately, I had the audacity to ask Jinan Jiahe that if I sent the spindle back would they hold it for ransom (I don't trust them anymore) to which they responded: "please do not send the spindle to our factory address now. Because it is hard to communicate and supply support although we are trying best ." In other words, I am on my own and they don't want to communicate with me anymore. Now I am going to have to try and fix the spindle myself which I don't think is going to end well. That means I need to spend another $3k-$5k for another spindle. Jinan Jiahe no longer communicates with me.
*** Yes, I did have them email pictures and videos to verify the machines operation.
Things I have learned:
-----------------------
* The Chinese sales people always try to appear that they are your friend and on your side but nothing is farther from the truth.
* Chinese warranties are useless and mean nothing. When something was broken I was told, 'We work together so you fix'. This is the same for the laser I bought
* Jinan Jiahe CNC company should not be in the CNC business because building a reasonable machine is beyond their capability
* Chinese companies will agree to things when they do not understand their meaning and even if they have no intention of doing them
* Jinan Jiahe are lyers
* I was afraid to post anything on the internet in fear that Jinan Jiahe would cut off communication and I wouldn't receive further support. Should have done it anyways
* Chinese companies have no experience with quality machines so that when they produce something they think is quality, in our eyes, it will still be nothing better than a boat anchor
* When the Chinese state that they are trying their best it is on par with 10% of the way most North American's try their best
* The Chinese do not operate with the same moral compass that we do - be prepared for it because I think theirs is stuck in the Bermuda Triangle
Things I recommend you do if you still plan on purchasing a Chinese machine:
* Visit the company you want to purchase from and verify their quality (make sure you know what to look for)
* If you can't visit a company then only buy from a company that is recommended to you by someone you trust
* Even if you do your homework they will find some way to cheat you
* Try to find a good used North American made or Japanese made (even Taiwanese made) machine first
* Never ever deal with Jinan Jiahe CNC company
Learn from my very expensive error. Professional equipment is expensive because it is expensive to produce. Do you need professional equipment or a toy? You can get good toys from China (if you like lead and melamine).
Is it possible to find a good Chinese company - of course it is. Unfortunately, the odds of you finding one, without visiting the country of China, are very slim because the internet is polluted with very poor Chinese companies. Are you willing to take that risk? I am not (anymore).
I am sorry that this post is so long but if you deal with a Chinese company you will have a long post too.
Yes, I am angry but I am mostly disappointed in myself for making such a stupid choice. I should have protected myself better.
I hope this helps someone.
I purchased a 4 Axis CNC mill with servo drives, 24"x30"x10" working envelope, Weihong 4 Axis PC Controller and a 7.5kW water cooled spindle from them last year. This is the second Chinese machine I imported with the first one being a 130W laser with a 4'x3' table. The laser purchase was a much better experience but there still were some unpleasant similarities.
I have owned and operated a 2000W Cincinnati laser for the past 9 years and I have my Engineering degree. I investigated at least 30 different companies for six months before short listing five companies ( I sent hundreds of emails). From the five companies I finally chose Jinan Jiahe. They weren't the best price but they offered that I could hold back $3000 for three months after the machine was delivered. That way I could verify the quality of the machine and if there were any problems I would still have some leverage.
They took a long time to build the machine but they did email me pictures of the machine's progress. The financing worked as follows: first I made a down payment, then I was to make another payment before the machine shipped and then I was to pay the final $3000 three months after receiving the machine. The company told me that they spent more on the machine then expected so asked that I pay $500 more before the machine shipped and $2500 after the three months. I agreed to this because it appeared that they were really trying.
The machine finally shipped after 6 months of waiting (3 months past their deadline). Since I had already imported the laser I knew the drill with getting the machine into Canada. The most important document I required was an original copy of the bill of lading. The document is usually couriered after the machine is shipped. The machine takes a couple of weeks to make the commute across the ocean and everything was going fine. I had received email copied versions of the documents so that the machine could clear customs upon arrival but I didn't receive an original copy of the bill of lading. I emailed the sales person and he ignored me for some time until the machine had arrived and was sitting in a bonded warehouse. The machine had five free days to sit in the warehouse just in case the paperwork takes a little bit of time to complete. The machine cleared customs without any problem but the freight forwarder would not release the machine yet because I had not sent them an original copy of the bill of lading (OBL). Once the machine was in the warehouse Jinan Jiahe told me that they would not send the OBL until I had paid for the machine in full and the salesperson wanted the money in their personal account and sent by Western Union. The red flags started to fly but I knew they had me over a barrel so I agreed to pay them all the funds but I would put the last payment into the same account as the last two payments. The salesperson didn't like this but I didn't want to have the company come back to me and tell me that I had not payed for the machine.
I made the payment immediately but then the bank screwed up the paperwork so that had to be fixed before the money would pass through. The paperwork was fixed before the money left Canada. Then I had to wait the usual three days for the money to get into the Chinese bank. Where the money goes for three days is beyond my understanding of international banking but I guarantee you that somebody is making a lot of money for doing nothing. Jinan Jiahe then told me that they never received the money and again asked me again to make the payment through Western Union and into his personal bank account. I didn't have any money left to give him so I had to wait. Mean while the machine was sitting in the warehouse accumulating rent ($80 per day). I had my bank manager try to call the Chinese bank but they just hung up. Then I had her call Jinan Jiahe company itself to tell them that we had made the payment but that didn't help. I begged and pleaded for the documents but they would not send them. Finally, after more than a week the sales person released the documents and sent them by 3-5 day courier to me. I then had to wait for the documents and overnight them across the country because the freight forwarder was in Ontario and I was in BC. In the end the sales person (Steve) told me that is was just the way business is. We are not rich people and the stress that it caused but huge. There were other unpleasantries with the whole shipping affair like the warehouse didn't have the equipment to move the machine properly (had to slide it onto the flat deck), didn't speak English, damaged the crate and treated me like garbage but that is another story.
I was finally able to pick up the machine and hired riggers to move it into my shop (another $1000). The crate was so poorly constructed that I was able to pull it apart with my hands. Now I was really nervous about the machine.
Here are the problems so far:
- They had shipped the machine resting on its feet instead of dunnage so the bolts blew through the cast leveling bases. It was an easy fix but still took many hours.
- The machine did not show up with any useful documentation.
- One connector was so corroded that the feedback from the servo didn't work
- The quality of their sheet metal work is on par to a beginners grade 9 high school class
- They made the windows from 1/16" Acrylic that broke with a slight push, they are now 1/4" polycarbonate
- They never finished running the wires properly for the tool zeroing system nor the tubing for the lubrication system
- The controller cabinet is too small to hold the computer they supplied
- There is over spray all over the controller cabinet from touch-ups
- One broken pressure gauge
- They spray painted the entire 4th axis before shipping and I mean everything: linear guides and chuck etc
- The tail stock for the 4th axis is a joke. They must have used bearings from an 1940's truck that had never been maintained. It is useless.
- The machine cannot be levelled to better than 0.01" over a foot because the frame appears to be a little tweaked
- Many loose fittings and fasteners
- The sliding doors didn't work but do now after 4 hours of persuasion
- The machine was supposed to be supplied with two cooling systems: a mist and a flood. They gave me an aquarium pump and no reservoir. The coolant return is supposed to be a path along the floor because there is just a hole
- I am sure there are many more problems to follow
I finally was able to power up the machine and I checked the run-out and it was off by 0.03" over the entire cutting surface. I still may be able to fix this with a little tweaking and having the machine resurface the table.
Now, for the worst news: the spindle won't release the tool holder anymore. I have a switch that sends air to the spindle to release the tool holder and it worked at first but then I noticed that the air fittings leaked on top of the spindle. I tightened the fittings (they were originally finger tight) and now the spindle will not release the holder. I asked Jinan Jiahe for help and after a week of emails they told me I need to ship the spindle back to China (at my expense) because it is broken. So much for having a warranty. Unfortunately, I had the audacity to ask Jinan Jiahe that if I sent the spindle back would they hold it for ransom (I don't trust them anymore) to which they responded: "please do not send the spindle to our factory address now. Because it is hard to communicate and supply support although we are trying best ." In other words, I am on my own and they don't want to communicate with me anymore. Now I am going to have to try and fix the spindle myself which I don't think is going to end well. That means I need to spend another $3k-$5k for another spindle. Jinan Jiahe no longer communicates with me.
*** Yes, I did have them email pictures and videos to verify the machines operation.
Things I have learned:
-----------------------
* The Chinese sales people always try to appear that they are your friend and on your side but nothing is farther from the truth.
* Chinese warranties are useless and mean nothing. When something was broken I was told, 'We work together so you fix'. This is the same for the laser I bought
* Jinan Jiahe CNC company should not be in the CNC business because building a reasonable machine is beyond their capability
* Chinese companies will agree to things when they do not understand their meaning and even if they have no intention of doing them
* Jinan Jiahe are lyers
* I was afraid to post anything on the internet in fear that Jinan Jiahe would cut off communication and I wouldn't receive further support. Should have done it anyways
* Chinese companies have no experience with quality machines so that when they produce something they think is quality, in our eyes, it will still be nothing better than a boat anchor
* When the Chinese state that they are trying their best it is on par with 10% of the way most North American's try their best
* The Chinese do not operate with the same moral compass that we do - be prepared for it because I think theirs is stuck in the Bermuda Triangle
Things I recommend you do if you still plan on purchasing a Chinese machine:
* Visit the company you want to purchase from and verify their quality (make sure you know what to look for)
* If you can't visit a company then only buy from a company that is recommended to you by someone you trust
* Even if you do your homework they will find some way to cheat you
* Try to find a good used North American made or Japanese made (even Taiwanese made) machine first
* Never ever deal with Jinan Jiahe CNC company
Learn from my very expensive error. Professional equipment is expensive because it is expensive to produce. Do you need professional equipment or a toy? You can get good toys from China (if you like lead and melamine).
Is it possible to find a good Chinese company - of course it is. Unfortunately, the odds of you finding one, without visiting the country of China, are very slim because the internet is polluted with very poor Chinese companies. Are you willing to take that risk? I am not (anymore).
I am sorry that this post is so long but if you deal with a Chinese company you will have a long post too.
Yes, I am angry but I am mostly disappointed in myself for making such a stupid choice. I should have protected myself better.
I hope this helps someone.